Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Reset on Failure | Dylan Wiliam (Pt. 2) | Fake Grading War

Monday May 22, 2023

Monday May 22, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:31), Tom opens with an assertion that it's time for a collective societal reset on what it means to fail. Then (12:24) Tom is once again joined by Dylan Wiliam for part 2 of a conversation about classroom assessment. Finally, in Assessment Corner (59:04), Tom provides some commentary on the Fake Grading War created by by Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction, Tom Horne.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Exceptions Prove the Rule | Dylan Wiliam | Cumulative Effect

Monday May 08, 2023

Monday May 08, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (3:56), Tom opens by explaining why the exceptions prove the rule rather than discredit it. Then (10:57) Tom is joined by Dylan Wiliam for part 1 (of 2) of a conversation about classroom assessment. Finally, in Assessment Corner (50:12), Tom provides a year-end reminder that grades should reflect the cumulative effect of instruction, not the points they've accumulated over time.

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Can vs Should | Shaunak Roy | Redefining Student Accountability (2)

Monday Apr 24, 2023

Monday Apr 24, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (1:45), Tom opens by contrasting the difference between what we can do and what we should do in education, especially with ChatGPT. Then (8:43) Tom is joined by Shaunak Roy, founder of Yellowdig, a  community-driven active and experiential learning platform. Finally, in Assessment Corner (45:24), in part 2 of 2, Tom shares more details about his latest book, "Redefining Student Accountability: A Proactive Approach to Teaching Behavior Outside the Gradebook."

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Less is More | Eric Sheninger | Redefining Student Accountability

Monday Apr 10, 2023

Monday Apr 10, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:11), Tom opens by reminding listeners that when it comes to making an argument in favour of something, or when you are trying to convince others to change to a more favourable practice, less is more! Then (9:47) Tom is joined by author Eric Sheninger to discuss his 2021 book, "Disruptive Thinking: Preparing Learners for Their Future." Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:11), Tom, in part 1 of 2, shares details about his latest book, "Redefining Student Accountability: A Proactive Approach to Teaching Behavior Outside the Gradebook."

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Thank you! | Ron Ritchhart | Idea Cults in Assessment

Monday Mar 27, 2023

Monday Mar 27, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:19), Tom celebrates episode 100 with a thank you to listeners. Then (7:50) Tom is joined by researcher and author Dr. Ron Ritchhart to discuss how we develop cultures of thinking in our classrooms. Finally, in Assessment Corner (57:06), Tom cautions listeners against idea cults that can emerge in discussions about assessment and grading that lack nuance and context.

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

ChatGPT in Education | Jessica Vance | ChatGPT & Assessment

Monday Mar 13, 2023

Monday Mar 13, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:17), Tom discusses the pros & cons of ChatGPT in K-12 education. Then (8:23) Tom is joined by author Jessica Vance to discuss her book, "Leading with a Lens of Inquiry." Finally, in Assessment Corner (43:16), Tom highlights ten ways ChatGPT can be used for classroom assessment.

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Last Thing You Said | Shelley Moore | Portfolios

Monday Feb 27, 2023

Monday Feb 27, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:37), Tom asked listeners to consider the question, "what's the last thing you said to yourself about yourself?" Then (10:11) Tom is joined by author and speaker, Shelley Moore to discuss the important aspects of equity, inclusion, & UDL. Finally, in Assessment Corner (57:47), Tom highlights why knowing its purpose is the most important part of implementing a portfolio system.

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Impact Update | Rob Dunlop | Overrater Explains

Monday Feb 13, 2023

Monday Feb 13, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:31), Tom provides an "impact" update, an update on how his #OneWord challenge is going so far. Then (9:20) Tom is joined by author Rob Dunlop to discuss his latest book, "Strive for Happiness in Education." Finally, in Assessment Corner (56:38), Tom provides a mantra to follow when there is a discrepancy between the student's self-assessment and the teacher's assessment.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Cost of NOT Changing | Tim Stephenson | Next Generation Assessment

Monday Jan 30, 2023

Monday Jan 30, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:56), Tom discusses why, when considering any change, it's important to consider the cost of NOT changing as well. Then (8:53) Tom is joined by science teacher and podcast host Tim Stephenson to discuss the essential characteristics of teaching science in the 21st century. Finally, in Assessment Corner (55:11), Tom highlights the key aspects of Next Generation Assessments.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

One Word Failure | Jan Chappuis | Anything but Arbitrary

Monday Jan 16, 2023

Monday Jan 16, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:46), Tom discusses how his One Word for 2022 was an epic failure and how he's going to give itone more shot. Then (7:35) Tom is joined by mentor, author, and consultant Jan Chappuis to discuss the evolution of assessment for learning over the past 20 years. Finally, in Assessment Corner (52:52), Tom highlights why grades should be anything but arbitrary.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more
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