Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Get What You Give | Genein Letford | Personalized Exams

Monday Nov 21, 2022

Monday Nov 21, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (1:30), Tom opens with a reminder that when it comes to professional learning, you get out of it what you put into it. Then, Tom is joined by Genein Letford (9:01), to discuss her book, Seven Gems of Intercultural Creativity. Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:44), Tom shares an idea on how to personalize final exams.

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Two Choices | Eric Saibel | Rethinking Group Grades

Monday Nov 14, 2022

Monday Nov 14, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (2:11), Tom opens by addressing the widespread lack of student engagement and suggesting there are only two choices educators have in response. Then, Tom is joined by Eric Saibel (11:22), who is a co-founder of "Global School Play Day, for a conversation about the importance of unstructured play for children and teens. Finally, in Assessment Corner (58:11), Tom highlights why he is rethinking his long-held stance against group grades.

 

 

Peter Gray (2014): The Decline of Play

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Relationship with Research | Laura Rizo | Standardized Test Engagement

Monday Nov 07, 2022

Monday Nov 07, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (1:50), Tom opens by asking listeners to reflect on their relationship with educational research. Then, Tom is joined by teen coach and staff developer Laura Rizo (10:55) for a conversation about student relationships, SEL, & family engagement. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:23), Tom answers a listener's question about how to increase student engagement in standardized testing.

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

BONUS: Teach Better ’22 (Part 1)

Thursday Nov 03, 2022

Thursday Nov 03, 2022

In this bonus episode, Tom shares some highlights of the Teach Better '22 conference by interviewing presenters and participants while on Podcast Row. Today's Episode features:

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Respectful Engagement | Dave Schmittou | AP Exam Format

Monday Oct 31, 2022

Monday Oct 31, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (1:50), Tom opens by contemplating the rules of "respectful" engagement when debating contentious issues. Then, Tom is joined by education author & speaker Dave Schmittou (8:55) for a conversation about his new book (co-authored with Katelyn Giordano) entitled, "Poking the Bear: A guide for engaging in the conversations that matter most." Finally, in Assessment Corner (54:52), Tom answers a listener's question about whether it is wise to purposefully utilize the AP Exam format in AP classroom assessment.

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Dear Society | Dawn Harris | Reassessing ’Big Rocks’

Monday Oct 24, 2022

Monday Oct 24, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (1:22), Tom opens with a Letter to Society regarding why so many teachers are leaving the profession. Then, Tom is joined by education author & teacher Dawn Harris (16:43) for a conversation about her book, "Plan like a PIRATE." Finally, in Assessment Corner (54:52), Tom answers a listener's question about reassessment.

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Complainers | Joe Feldman | Rubrics 101

Monday Oct 17, 2022

Monday Oct 17, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (2:29), Tom complains about complainers who have turned complaining into a personality trait driven by ego. Then, Tom is joined by Joe Feldman (12:38) for a conversation about his book, "Grading for Equity." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:01:35), Tom reviews some important aspects needed to develop high-quality rubrics.

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Must Be Measurable | John Hattie | The Good Ol’ Test

Monday Oct 10, 2022

Monday Oct 10, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (2:37), Tom shares his thoughts on how anything schools want to count in the court of public opinion must be measurable. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. John Hattie (12:25) for part two of a conversation about the Visible Learning research. Finally, in Assessment Corner (52:38), Tom discusses the good ol’ test, and how it can still fit within a balanced approach to assessment.

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 
  •  

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Quiet Quitting | John Hattie | Willful Distortion

Monday Oct 03, 2022

Monday Oct 03, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (2:15), Tom shares his thoughts on the recent social media phenomenon called "Quiet Quitting." Then, Tom is joined by Dr. John Hattie (12:16) for part one of a conversation about the Visible Learning research. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:11), Tom discusses why it might be time to push back against those who push back at the elimination of punitive grading practices.

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 

 

 

  • Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more

Can You Be Led? | Connie Hamilton | Fractured Relationship

Monday Sep 26, 2022

Monday Sep 26, 2022

In Don’t @ Me (2:53), Tom opens by asking us all to consider whether we can set our egos aside and be open to being led. Then, Tom is joined by educator and author Connie Hamilton (9:33) to discuss her book, “Hacking Questions: 11 Answers that Create a Culture of Inquiry in your Classroom.” Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:38), Tom identifies the six most common ways the relationship between the formative and summative assessment paradigms gets fractured, making grading reform more difficult.

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING

 

  • Grading from the Inside Out (2-Day Workshop) 

 

 

  • Teach Better Conference (CODE: Schimmer22)

 

  • Michigan Assessment Consortium

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more
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