Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Act Toward | Discipline as Noun | Judge Holistically

Monday Sep 11, 2023

Monday Sep 11, 2023

Mindset Minute (2:11) focuses on why we need to "act toward" what we want. Then (5:35), Tom describes how his view of school discipline evolved to one where "discipline" is something we help students become, not what we do to them. Finally, in Assessment Corner (17:47), Tom suggests that when we assess for the summative purpose, we need to judge holistically.

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Act as If | Relationships through Learning | Levels to %

Monday Aug 28, 2023

Monday Aug 28, 2023

Mindset Minute (2:23) focuses on the concept of "act as if" where we create present emotions that match how we want to feel when what we want manifests. Then (7:24), Tom asserts that building relationships with students comes through their learning, not before. Finally, in Assessment Corner (17:44), Tom answers a listener's question about converting proficiency levels to percentage-based grades.

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Spot Upfront | Cale Birk | Know Your Purpose

Monday Aug 07, 2023

Monday Aug 07, 2023

In the Mindset Minute (2:13), Tom shares a mantra that he's used to create a mindset that everything always works out for him. Then (6:06) Tom is joined by author, speaker, and friend Cale Birk to talk about why leaders need to plan for impact, not just change. Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:01), Tom reminds listeners about the importance of knowing your assessment purpose in advance of any assessment.

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Biology of Belief | Nikta Afonso | Time to Pushback

Monday Jul 24, 2023

Monday Jul 24, 2023

In the Mindset Minute (2:36) Tom highlights the book, “The Biology of Belief” by Dr. Bruce Lipton. It is one of the most influential books in terms of Tom’s mindset and outlook on life. Then (8:36) Tom is joined by singer, songwriter, and former student Nikita Afonso to talk about her growing music career. Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:51), Tom asserts that it’s time to ask those who resist assessment and grading reform to substantiate their resistance with research, not just their opinion.

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Mindset Minute | Julie Schmidt Hasson | Now is the Time

Monday Jul 10, 2023

Monday Jul 10, 2023

In the Mindset Minute (2:22) - a new segment - Tom asserts that the power of positive thinking is as much about the present as it is about the future. Then (6:35) Tom is joined by educator and author Julie Schmidt Hasson to discuss her latest offering, "Pause, Ponder, and Persist in the Classroom: How Teachers Turn Challenges into Opportunities for Impact." Finally, in Assessment Corner (44:48), Tom makes the case for why now - the summer - is the perfect time to build your assessment literacy.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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BONUS: New BC Reporting Order

Wednesday Jun 07, 2023

Wednesday Jun 07, 2023

In this bonus episode, Tom offers his perspective on the New Reporting Order in British Columbia set to be implemented in the 2023-24 school year. In PART 1, Tom highlights the backstory and development (and poor messaging) surrounding the implementation of the new curriculum when it was first developed several years ago. In PART 2 (15:15), Tom takes aim at the obsession some have with percentage-based grading and why it is an unreliable, inaccurate, and incomplete way of assessing. In PART 3 (35:04), Tom offers his critiques of the new reporting order, specifically at the assertion made in documents to families from the BC Ministry of Education that "Proficient is the goal for your child" and that "Extending is not the goal for all students in every area of learning." 

 

 

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Reset on Failure | Dylan Wiliam (Pt. 2) | Fake Grading War

Monday May 22, 2023

Monday May 22, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:31), Tom opens with an assertion that it's time for a collective societal reset on what it means to fail. Then (12:24) Tom is once again joined by Dylan Wiliam for part 2 of a conversation about classroom assessment. Finally, in Assessment Corner (59:04), Tom provides some commentary on the Fake Grading War created by by Arizona Superintendent of Public Instruction, Tom Horne.

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Exceptions Prove the Rule | Dylan Wiliam | Cumulative Effect

Monday May 08, 2023

Monday May 08, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (3:56), Tom opens by explaining why the exceptions prove the rule rather than discredit it. Then (10:57) Tom is joined by Dylan Wiliam for part 1 (of 2) of a conversation about classroom assessment. Finally, in Assessment Corner (50:12), Tom provides a year-end reminder that grades should reflect the cumulative effect of instruction, not the points they've accumulated over time.

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Can vs Should | Shaunak Roy | Redefining Student Accountability (2)

Monday Apr 24, 2023

Monday Apr 24, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (1:45), Tom opens by contrasting the difference between what we can do and what we should do in education, especially with ChatGPT. Then (8:43) Tom is joined by Shaunak Roy, founder of Yellowdig, a  community-driven active and experiential learning platform. Finally, in Assessment Corner (45:24), in part 2 of 2, Tom shares more details about his latest book, "Redefining Student Accountability: A Proactive Approach to Teaching Behavior Outside the Gradebook."

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

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Less is More | Eric Sheninger | Redefining Student Accountability

Monday Apr 10, 2023

Monday Apr 10, 2023

In Don’t @ Me (2:11), Tom opens by reminding listeners that when it comes to making an argument in favour of something, or when you are trying to convince others to change to a more favourable practice, less is more! Then (9:47) Tom is joined by author Eric Sheninger to discuss his 2021 book, "Disruptive Thinking: Preparing Learners for Their Future." Finally, in Assessment Corner (47:11), Tom, in part 1 of 2, shares details about his latest book, "Redefining Student Accountability: A Proactive Approach to Teaching Behavior Outside the Gradebook."

 

 

 

UPCOMING EVENTS

 

 

NEW BOOKS BY TOM:

 

 

 

 

 

CONNECT WITH TOM SCHIMMER

 

Read more
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