178.8K
Downloads
159
Episodes
Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
-
Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
-
Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.
Episodes
Monday May 05, 2025
Monday May 05, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat introduce listeners to their new book, "Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Student Learning through Storytelling." While subsequent episodes will focus on specific aspects and strategies, this episode is an overview of why they wrote the book and who the target audience is.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
- Madison, WI
- September 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- Atlanta, GA
- October 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- San Diego, CA
- December 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action
- San Diego, CA
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
Unleash YES
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Apr 21, 2025
Monday Apr 21, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat explore the intersection between assessment and Universal Design for Learning (UDL). Specifically, they highlight five important connections:
- UDL means designing assessments from the start with flexibility in mind.
- Assessment must reflect the UDL principles of engagement, representation, and expression.
- Formative assessment is essential—it guides flexible, responsive design.
- Clear learning goals allow you to separate the what from the how.
- Self-assessment and reflection develop agency and expert learners.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
- Madison, WI
- September 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- Atlanta, GA
- October 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- San Diego, CA
- December 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action
- San Diego, CA
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Apr 07, 2025
Monday Apr 07, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat play the game "Would You Rather," exploring five assessment dilemmas that teachers and schools often face:
Would You Rather:
#1: Allow students to redo assessments right up to report card deadlines, or cut off revisions two weeks early to protect your feedback quality and mental health?
#2: Suppress a student’s grade when evidence is insufficient, or assign a best-estimate level using professional judgment to avoid blank spaces on reports?
#3: Use a single holistic score to reflect overall proficiency on a standard, or break it down into multiple component scores for clarity — even if it overwhelms families?
#4: Prioritize the accuracy of the final report card by using only summative tasks, or include some formative data to recognize effort and encourage student morale?
#5: Give more weight to recent evidence to honor growth, or consider the full body of work to avoid inflated grades from last-minute surges?
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Mar 10, 2025
Monday Mar 10, 2025
Tom and Nat explore some important reminders about how to ensure that the assessment of both Project- and Inquiry-Based Learning are meaningful, cognitively complex, and substantive. Just "doing" PBL or Inquiry is not enough. The promise of these approaches to learning is deeper learning so our assessment practices need to reach that promise.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Feb 24, 2025
Monday Feb 24, 2025
In this Tom Schimmer Podcast classic, Tom is joined by Gholdy Muhammad to discuss her book, "Cultivating Genius, an Equity Framework for Culturally and Historically Responsive Literacy."
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
NEW BOOK
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Feb 10, 2025
Monday Feb 10, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat share a three-year checklist for implementing standards-based grading. Of course, every checklist must be checked" against the culture and nuances of each specific situation. but generally, this checklist will provide a road map that can at least initiate the journey; you can adjust from there
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
- Phoenix, AZ
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Jan 27, 2025
Monday Jan 27, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat discuss the "Secrets to Self-Assessment." Having students competent in self-assessment is the ultimate outcome of teachers' assessment literacy; teachers need to teach students how to do it.
Tom and Nat discuss (1) Why Self-Assessment matters, (2) How to overcome the inevitable challenges and roadblocks that come with early implementation, and (3) Five effective self-assessment strategies.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- Orlando, FL.
- FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
- Phoenix, AZ
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Dec 02, 2024
Monday Dec 02, 2024
In this episode, Tom and Natalie discuss the "Grading Trap," which inadvertently occurs when traditional grading practices - things like zeros for missing work, late penalties, and mixing behavior with academic performance - end up working against learning instead of supporting it. The "Grading Trap" can inadvertently sabotage great teaching.
Tom and Natalie close the episode with ways that teachers can recognize the "red flags" of the "Grading Trap" and how they can get themselves out of it.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- JAN. 24-25 (Tom) NESA Educators Training Institute
- Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
- FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- Orlando, FL.
- FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
- Phoenix, AZ
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Nov 18, 2024
Monday Nov 18, 2024
In this episode, Tom and Natalie discuss three quick assessment wins. Each "win" falls within a specific aspect of assessment.
- Formative: Engineer conversations
- Summative: Reorganize the gradebook.
- Student Agency: Feedback through consent
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- JAN. 24-25 (Tom) NESA Educators Training Institute
- Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
- FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- Orlando, FL.
- FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
- Phoenix, AZ
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
- Podcast on X
- Tom on X
- Natalie on X
- Podcast on IG
- Tom on IG
- Natalie on IG
- Email: assessthat24@gmail.com
Monday Nov 04, 2024
Monday Nov 04, 2024
In this episode, Tom and Natalie discuss what makes a good rubric. They discuss the art and science of rubrics and what constitutes a high-quality rubric. They also discuss the differences between analytic, holistic, and single-point rubrics.
UPCOMING PROFESSIONAL LEARNING
- JAN. 24-25 (Tom) NESA Educators Training Institute
- Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.
- FEB. 6-7 (Natalie) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- Orlando, FL.
- FEB 19 (Tom) PLC Summit KEYNOTE
- Phoenix, AZ
- MAR. 5-6 (Tom) GFIO 2-Day Workshop
- San Antonio, TX
- MAR. 24-25 (Tom) SBLA 2-Day
- New Orleans, LA
- APR. 5-6 (Tom & Nat) NESA Learning Futures Summit
- Athens, Greece
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) Solution Tree Assessment Collaborative Institue
- Madison, WI
JENNIFER GONZALES RUBRICS BLOG:
https://www.cultofpedagogy.com/holistic-analytic-single-point-rubrics/
RECENT BOOKS:
- "Redefining Student Accountability"
- "Concise Answers to FAQs about Assessment & Grading"
- "Jackpot: Nurturing Student Investment through Assessment"
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
- Podcast on X
- Tom on X
- Natalie on X
- Podcast on IG
- Tom on IG
- Natalie on IG
- Email: assessthat24@gmail.com