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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.
Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.
About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.
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Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.
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Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.
Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.
Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.
Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.
Episodes
Monday Nov 03, 2025
Monday Nov 03, 2025
When it comes to transforming assessment, few educators bridge the gap between vision and practice quite like Danielle Paloposki. As a passionate advocate for outcomes-based learning, Danielle helps schools move beyond the chaos of percentages and points toward a system grounded in clarity, consistency, and authentic evidence of learning. Her work challenges the old myths of grading by reminding us that fairness isn’t about giving everyone the same task, but about ensuring every learner has a clear pathway to demonstrate mastery.
In this conversation, Tom and Nat sit down with Danielle to explore how schools can make the philosophical shift to an outcomes-based mindset while navigating the very real challenges of implementation and leadership. They also dig into her upcoming CAC webinar, “AI Won’t Pass THIS Test: Moving from AI Cheating to Authentic Evidence of Learning,” where she reframes the AI “cheating” narrative and reminds us that technology can only expose what was never truly authentic to begin with. This one’s all about designing learning and assessment that machines can’t mimic and humans can’t fake.
November 15 Webinar: A.I. Won't Pass THIS Test!
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Austin, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Oct 20, 2025
Monday Oct 20, 2025
Formative assessment is one of education’s most powerful tools, but its real impact lies in the subtle, often-overlooked nuances that transform it from good to great. In this episode, Tom and Nat explore five key moves that elevate formative practice, from designing prompts that elicit the right evidence of learning to interpreting student thinking with precision and timing feedback for maximum impact.
Drawing from real examples across math, literacy, science, social studies, and the arts, they show how small shifts in practice can yield big gains in student understanding and ownership. Whether you’re new to formative assessment or looking to refine your craft, this conversation will leave you rethinking how evidence, feedback, and instructional decisions can work together to drive deeper learning.
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
-Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Austin, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Oct 06, 2025
Monday Oct 06, 2025
In this episode, Tom & Nat sit down with Karley Alleyn, a Canadian Assessment Centre consultant and a powerful voice helping educators rethink what assessment can be. Drawing on her graduate research in assessment identity, Karley explores how our personal experiences, beliefs, and emotions as educators shape our approach to assessing students. Her insights help teachers understand why they do what they do and how greater self-awareness can lead to more authentic and equitable assessment practices.
Karley shares stories from her Assessment Accelerator program, offering practical ways for teachers to move from assessment frustration to confidence. Whether you’re a classroom teacher, instructional coach, or school leader, this conversation will challenge you to see assessment not just as a set of practices, but as a reflection of who you are and the kind of learning environment you want to create.
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
-Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Austin, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Sep 22, 2025
Monday Sep 22, 2025
Exams have long been a fixture in schools, but too often they end up measuring memory and endurance more than deep learning. In this episode, we challenge the tradition of final exams and explore how schools can reimagine them into experiences that actually matter for students.
From case studies and performance tasks to choice-driven assessments, we share practical ways to transform exams into authentic, equitable, and engaging showcases of learning. Whether you’re a teacher redesigning a course or a leader guiding policy, you’ll leave with clear ideas to make exams the most valuable moment of the year.
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
-Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Austin, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday Sep 08, 2025
Monday Sep 08, 2025
Creativity isn’t a bonus skill for a lucky few — it’s a core competency every student needs to thrive in an unpredictable future. In this episode, Tom and Nat break down why creativity deserves a place in your assessment plan and, more importantly, exactly how to make that happen without stifling student imagination. You’ll learn practical strategies for defining creativity, building student-friendly criteria, and making both the process and product visible.
Along the way, they share examples to show that creative thinking belongs in every classroom. Whether you’re looking for small tweaks or a complete rethink, you’ll leave with tools that empower students to take bold risks and produce original work they’re proud of. Assessing creativity isn’t just possible — it’s one of the most powerful ways to prepare your learners for the world ahead.
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Sep 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Atlanta, GA)
-Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
-Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Auston, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Friday Aug 29, 2025
Friday Aug 29, 2025
In this bonus episode of Assess THAT with Tom & Nat, we’re excited to introduce the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC) — a new national hub dedicated to helping schools modernize their assessment and grading practices with clarity, credibility, and care.
We share the story of why CAC was created, outline our Charter, Vision, and Mission, and highlight what’s coming: free webinars, mini-courses, on-site PD, and national conferences. We also announce our first-ever national conference, taking place on April 9–10, 2026, in Vancouver, BC — a coast-to-coast gathering designed for Canadian educators to connect, collaborate, and shape the future of assessment. While CAC is built by Canadians, for Canadians, we warmly invite our U.S. and international colleagues to join us in learning and leading together.
🍁CANADIAN ASSESSMENT CENTRE
Join our mailing list for assessment strategies, new podcast episodes, upcoming events, and all things Canadian Assessment. Join Here
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
-Sep 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Atlanta, GA)
-Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
-Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
-Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Auston, TX)
-April 9-10, 2026 Canadian Assessment Spring Conference (Vancouver, BC)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
- Podcast on X
- Tom on X
- Natalie on X
- Podcast on IG
- Tom on IG
- Natalie on IG
- Email: assessthat24@gmail.com
Monday Aug 25, 2025
Monday Aug 25, 2025
As a new school year begins, it’s the perfect time to revisit the grading habits we’ve carried forward, sometimes without question. In this episode, Tom and Nat unpack five common grading “rules” that may be doing more harm than good. With a mix of mindset shifts and actionable tips, they invite educators to hit reset and design grading practices that actually support learning. Whether you’re just starting or looking to go deeper, this episode offers clarity, encouragement, and a fresh perspective for the year ahead.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- Sep 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (Atlanta, GA)
- Oct 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out (San Diego, CA)
- Oct 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out (Spokane, WA)
- Dec 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action (Auston, TX)
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
Unleash YES
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
- Podcast on X
- Tom on X
- Natalie on X
- Podcast on IG
- Tom on IG
- Natalie on IG
- Email: assessthat24@gmail.com
Monday Aug 11, 2025
Monday Aug 11, 2025
In this back-to-school episode, Tom and Nat dive into the often-overlooked reality that your first assessments and grading decisions send powerful messages to students that can shape the classroom culture for the entire year.
They unpack how early assessment choices communicate your values, influence student confidence, and either build or erode trust. From designing low-stakes, feedback-rich tasks to avoiding common grading traps, you’ll discover practical ways to set a learning-focused tone from day one. Whether you’re a new teacher or a seasoned pro, this episode will help you start the year with clarity, intention, and an assessment culture that inspires growth.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- September 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- Atlanta, GA
- October 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- San Diego, CA
- October 23-24 (Natalie) Grading from the Inside Out
- Spokane, WA
- December 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action
- San Diego, CA
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
Unleash YES
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
- Podcast on X
- Tom on X
- Natalie on X
- Podcast on IG
- Tom on IG
- Natalie on IG
- Email: assessthat24@gmail.com
Monday Jun 16, 2025
Monday Jun 16, 2025
As the school year winds down, it’s the perfect time to pause, reflect, and refine. In this episode, Tom and Nat walk you through five powerful questions to guide an end-of-year assessment audit—no data deep dives or compliance checklists required. Just clear, practical ways to decide what assessment strategies to keep, adjust, or let go. Whether you’re packing up your classroom or planning for next year, this episode will help you carry forward what works and ditch what doesn’t.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
- Madison, WI
- September 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- Atlanta, GA
- October 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- San Diego, CA
- December 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action
- San Diego, CA
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
Unleash YES
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE
Monday May 19, 2025
Monday May 19, 2025
In this episode, Tom and Nat continue the discussion about their new book, "Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Student Learning through Storytelling." This episode takes a deeper dive into how, through various story structures, students can tell the story of WHAT they're learning and HOW they're learning.
PROFESSIONAL LEARNING EVENTS
- June 25-27 (Tom & Nat) ST Assessment Collaborative Institute
- Madison, WI
- September 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- Atlanta, GA
- October 22-23 (Tom) Grading from the Inside Out
- San Diego, CA
- December 2-3, 2025 (Tom) Standards-Based Learning in Action
- San Diego, CA
NEW BOOK FROM TOM & NAT
Unleash YES
CONNECT WITH TOM & NATALIE