Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Lead with Your Charisma | Bill Ferriter | Instructional Agility

Monday Nov 23, 2020

Monday Nov 23, 2020

In Don't @ Me (4:29) Tom asserts that leaders must find their charisma, develop their charisma, so they can lead with their charisma. Then, Tom is joined by Bill Ferriter (18:18), a middle school science teacher from North Carolina, to discuss teaching strategies for a remote or hybrid learning model. In Assessment Corner (1:31:22), Tom outlines a process for how teachers can plan with precision for instructional agility.

Notes from Bill Ferriter Interview:

  • Digital Tools Guide
 
  • Bill & daughter singing the Canadian National Anthem:

 

 

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Attention for Change | Katie Martin | Reassessment

Monday Nov 16, 2020

Monday Nov 16, 2020

In Don't @Me (4:58) Tom explores the single biggest challenge people face when they need to gain buy-in for a good idea. Then, Tom is joined by Katie Martin (16:54) to discuss her book "Learner-Centered Innovation" and what it means to empower students to explore and learn how to make an impact on the world. In the News (1:07:16) includes a reflection on all of the stories surrounding Covid-19. In Assessment Corner (1:10:59), Tom has some suggestions that can make implementing reassessment routines more efficient and effective. Finally, Tom has a question for listeners (1:24:07) about upcoming episodes.

 

 

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The Debate of Ideas | Katie White | Rubrics (2)

Monday Nov 09, 2020

Monday Nov 09, 2020

In Don't @ Me (3:48), Tom wonders aloud about what has happened to the debate of ideas and why all debate seems to get so personal so quickly. Then, Tom is joined by Canadian assessment author, speaker, and consultant Katie White (18:04) where they explore the soft and hard edges of assessment and why assessment is the key to everyday creativity. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:15:15) Tom revisits last week's conversation about what the best type of rubric is and asserts that rubrics that describe (not prescribe) quality and are task-neutral are most favorable.

 

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Alberta Curriculum | Josh Ogilvie (PHE) | Rubrics

Monday Nov 02, 2020

Monday Nov 02, 2020

In Don't @ Me (3:29), Tom takes aim at the curriculum reform efforts in the province of Alberta. Then, Tom is joined by Josh Ogilvie (12:49), PHE Department Head at Burnaby South Secondary School to discuss PHE during the pandemic as well as the evolution of PHE programs in general. In Assessment Corner (1:07:44), Tom explores the question: What's the best rubric to use? Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:19:46), Tom highlights Rik Rowe on Twitter (@RoweRikW).
 

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Parents | Tim Stuart | Predictions or Interventions

Monday Oct 26, 2020

Monday Oct 26, 2020

In Don't @ Me (2:41), Tom discusses why parents have the right to be heard. Then, Tom is joined by Tim Stuart (14:40), Head of School at the International Community School in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia to discuss Covid-19, International Teaching, and Personalized Learning. In the News (1:06:21) includes a story from Texas about teacher training and support as well as an update on the proposed curriculum changes from the province of Alberta. In Assessment Corner (1:17:09), Tom explores the correlation between high school grades and university success. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:24:34), Tom highlights Nadia Lopez on Instagram (@thelopezeffect).
 

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Details Matter | Thrive Ed. Students | 3 Big Ideas for SBG

Monday Oct 19, 2020

Monday Oct 19, 2020

In Don't @ Me (2:31), Tom discusses why details matter when it comes to proposing new and/or progressive ideas for educational change. Then Tom is joined by Aniya Bailey, Teontay Bryson, and Nathan Genene (15:38), three students from Thrive Ed. to discuss their perspective on reimagining schools for the 21st century. In the News (1:21:24) includes an international story about a 2021 Summit between the UK and Kenya, as well as the story of how the San Diego Unified School District is changing its grading and reporting policies. In Assessment Corner (1:27:42), Tom explores 3 big ideas for standards-based grading. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:34:13), Tom highlights Matt Townsley (@mctownsley).
 

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Keeping it Real | Nicole Dimich (Thrive Ed.) | Student Accountability

Monday Oct 12, 2020

Monday Oct 12, 2020

In Don't @ Me (1:49), Tom asserts that now is the time for authentic, grounded optimism rather than toxic positivity; that tending to people's emotional well-being is what's needed. Then Tom is joined by Nicole Dimich (14:15), Executive Director of Thrive Ed., for their discussion about the work Thrive Ed. is doing to reimagine schools for the 21st century. In the News (55:52) includes a story out of Utah about a district offering a Covid-Bonus and a story about the inadvertent tension that can arise when students mimic their parents' attitudes about Covid protocols. Assessment Corner (1:07:19) includes a question about Student Accountability. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:19:27), Tom highlights Brian Butler (@bkbutler_brian).
 

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Assessment Literacy | Anthony Muhammad (Pt. 2) | Final Exams

Monday Oct 05, 2020

Monday Oct 05, 2020

In Don't @ Me, Tom asserts that building our assessment literacy is the most efficient and effective professional investment any teacher can make. Then Tom is joined by Anthony Muhammad (12:50) for part two of their discussion about racial equity, this time focusing on schools specifically. In the News (52:29) includes a story out of Texas about how new teachers are handling their remote learning model and a story out of England about the inclusion of 'Black History' in their History curriculum. Assessment Corner (1:08:17) includes a question on the utility of final exams. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:22:09), Tom highlights Dean Simmons (@DenaSimmons) and Lee Ann Jung (@leeannjung).

  • Email the Podcast: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
  • Follow the Podcast on Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
  • Follow Tom on Twitter: @TomSchimmer
  • Facebook &. Instagram: Schimmer Education

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The Real World | Anthony Muhammad (Pt. 1) | Effective Feedback

Monday Sep 28, 2020

Monday Sep 28, 2020

In Don't @ Me (2:05), Tom talks about why it's time to retire the expression "Wait until they get into the Real World." Tom is then joined by best-selling author Dr. Anthony Muhammad (15:32) for part 1 of their discussion about the racial equity work in society. In the News (44:21) includes stories about learning pods and the curriculum reviews taking place in many school districts. Assessment Corner (58:47) includes a question about "leveled questions" and Tom expands on last week's conversation about feedback. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:10:33), Tom highlights the #ATAssessment Twitter chat and the four moderators: Katie White (@KatieWhite426), Mandy Stalets (@MandyStalets), Ken Mattingly (@kenmattingly), and Anisa Baker-Busby (@AnisaBusby). 

 

  • Email the Podcast: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
  • Follow the Podcast on Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
  • Follow Tom on Twitter: @TomSchimmer
  • Facebook &. Instagram: Schimmer Education

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Back to School Balance | Tom Guskey | Large-Scale Assessment

Monday Sep 21, 2020

Monday Sep 21, 2020

In Don't @ Me (1:45), Tom talks about why it's important to find our back-to-school balance. Tom is then joined by Dr. Tom Guskey for The Interview (11:45) to discuss the legacy of Benjamin Bloom and the necessary assessment and grading mindsets for a fair and successful 2020-21 school year. In the News (53:51) includes a story about COVID testing in Utah and the recent story from the province of Alberta and their desire to develop a new guiding vision for K-12 education. Assessment Corner (1:00:36) includes a question about using large-scale assessments to improve student learning and another about feedback. Finally, in Tweets of the Week (1:16:14), Tom has two follow suggestions that you won't want to miss.  

 

 

  • Follow Teach For the Culture on Instagram: @teachfortheculture
  • Follow Holiday Phillips on Twitter and Instagram  
  • Email the Podcast: tomschimmerpod@gmail.com
  • Podcast Twitter: @TomSchimmerPod
  • Tom on Twitter: @TomSchimmer 
  • Instagram: Schimmer Education 
  • Facebook: Schimmer Education

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