Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Allure of Labels | Starr Sackstein | Multiple-Choice

Monday Feb 15, 2021

Monday Feb 15, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:34) Tom shares his thoughts on why (now more than ever) people use labels to undercut the credibility of those with whom they disagree. Then, Tom is joined by Starr Sackstein (10:48) to discuss her assessment journey and her quest to go "gradeless." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:05:24), Tom explores when multiple-choice is an appropriate assessment method and how to develop a quality multiple-choice item.

 

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Experience for Nuance | Jay McTighe | Assessing Creativity

Monday Feb 08, 2021

Monday Feb 08, 2021

In Don't @ Me (6:18) Tom examines the strange relationship some educators have with research and suggests that our experience be used to add the nuances of implementation. Then, Tom is joined by Jay McTighe (15:15) to discuss "Designing Authentic Performance Tasks and Projects." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:20:30), Tom explores how teachers can assess creativity without stifling creativity and how to develop criteria to assess the creative process.

 

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Learning Loss Illusion | Shauna Brown | Net-Zero Grading Reform

Monday Feb 01, 2021

Monday Feb 01, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:50) Tom explains why he's done talking about the "COVID learning loss" and why rich, engaging opportunities now are all students need going forward; that "catching-up" is a manufactured narrative. Then Tom is joined by Shauna Brown (11:48) who is an Instructional Leader, Consultant, Educator, and Entrepreneur; the discussion centers on racial equity in schools and society, as well as the vision behind her brand "Teach For the Culture." Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:01:31), Tom highlights why any move to sound grading practices or standard-based grading must be a net-zero change proposition; that doing more of one thing should lead to doing less of something else.

 

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Psychology of Conspiracy | Katie Novak | Atypical Assessments (2)

Monday Jan 25, 2021

Monday Jan 25, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:58) Tom explores the psychological motives behind why some people believe strongly in conspiracy theories and potentially how to support those who realize the theories were wrong. Then, in the interview (14:08), Tom is joined by author, speaker, and consultant Katie Novak to discuss the impact of Universal Design for Learning. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:09:36), Tom, in part 2 of his exploration of atypical assessment formats, highlights how teachers can engineer effective collaborative conversations in their classrooms; he also thinks aloud as to how story-telling can be more embedded into a culturally responsive assessment system.

 

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Professional Judgment | Rick Wormeli | Atypical Assessments

Monday Jan 18, 2021

Monday Jan 18, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:48) Tom asserts that now is the time for teachers to reclaim their professional judgment; however, to do so, he also asserts that teachers must be prepared for the responsibilities that come with it. Then, in the interview (15:14), Tom is joined by author, speaker, and consultant Rick Wormeli to discuss the events of January 6, as well as a number of different current (and future) educational topics. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:15:23), Tom, part 1 of 2, details why "atypical assessment formats" must be embraced if teachers are going to remain relevant and culturally responsive.

 

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Rehumanize Each Other | Tom Hierck | Grading: Verb or Noun?

Monday Jan 11, 2021

Monday Jan 11, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:35), in the wake of the events in Washington, DC on January 6, Tom makes the case for why we need to rehumanize our human connections. Then, in the interview (15:42), Tom is joined by Canadian author, speaker, and consultant Tom Hierck to discuss student behavior and school culture. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:01:39), Tom addresses a question about eliminating "grading" and why it's so important to be clear on whether we mean "grading the verb" or "grading the noun."

 

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Celebrating You! | 5 Leadership Lessons | Assessing Collaboration

Monday Jan 04, 2021

Monday Jan 04, 2021

In Don't @ Me (4:28), Tom celebrates educators and their incredible work over the first half of this school year. Then, in a solo segment (15:42), Tom highlights five leadership lessons he has learned through his personal experience as a school-based and district-level leader. Finally, in Assessment Corner (48:20), Tom addresses a question about assessing collaboration and whether there is any place for group scores or results.

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Attitude of Gratitude | Erik Francis | Repacking Standards

Monday Dec 14, 2020

Monday Dec 14, 2020

In Don't @ Me (4:48), Tom explores the feeling of gratitude and how it can actually impact you and your brain; he also expresses his gratitude for you, the listening audience. In the Interview (15:19), Tom is joined by Erik Francis to discuss what makes for a good question and how to effectively use Depth of Knowledge (DOK) in planning. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:25:00), Tom addresses the practice of repacking standards for cognitive rigor.

 

 

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Harm of Hyperbole | Cassandra Erkens | Year-End Standards

Monday Dec 07, 2020

Monday Dec 07, 2020

In Don't @ Me (4:09), Tom takes aim at the prevalence of hyperbole, especially on social media, and why it actually weakens one's argument. In the Interview (16:47), Tom is joined by his close friend and colleague Cassandra Erkens to discuss how Collaborative Common Assessments maximize the opportunity for student achievement and engineer authentic professional learning opportunities for teachers. Finally, in Assessment Corner (59:58), Tom addresses a question about how to assess year-end standards during the school year.

 

 

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Get it Wrong | Tara Barton | Memorization

Monday Nov 30, 2020

Monday Nov 30, 2020

In Don't @ Me (3:32), Tom makes the case for why educators need to push themselves with trying new strategies and practices, and why getting it wrong is a positive. In The Interview (13:29), Tom is joined by Tara Barton, Founder and Director of Serve Learn (Melbourne, Australia), to discuss what a robust Service Learning model looks like in schools and why it's essential for developing 21st-century skills in learners. In Assessment Corner (1:12:32), Tom addresses the role of memorization in a modern learning environment and highlights the difference between a task and an assessment.

 

 

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