Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

With Age Comes... | Yvette Jackson | Non-Verbal Cues

Monday May 10, 2021

Monday May 10, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:18), Tom explores the societal contradiction that emerges when we finish the expression, "With Ages Comes Wisdom." Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Yvette Jackson (13:55), author of Pedagogy of Confidence to discuss the equity issue surrounding Special Education and Gifted programs. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:32:14), Tom discusses the formative role of non-verbal cues in making instructional decisions.

 

  • Yvette Jackson does not have an active social media presence.
  • Email Yvette Jackson: DRJNUA@aol.com
  • National Urban Alliance: www.nuatc.org

 

 

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Teacher Appreciation | Natalie Vardabasso | Assessment Purpose

Monday May 03, 2021

Monday May 03, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:58), Tom expresses his appreciation to all teachers who have, over the past 12-14 months, done heroic work in supporting learners through these unprecedented times. Then, Tom is joined by Natalie Vardabasso (12:57), Assessment Instructional Design Lead at Calgary Academy and host of the EduCrush Podcast. Finally, in Assessment Corner (58:35), Tom discusses the importance of knowing your assessment purpose and why it sets up everything else throughout the assessment cycle.

 

 

 

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False Dichotomies | Catlin Tucker | More than Verbs

Monday Apr 26, 2021

Monday Apr 26, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:06), Tom addresses the current obsession with false dichotomies and asserts that one in education has to stop. Then, Tom is joined by Catlin Tucker (17:05), author, speaker, leader, and expert in Blended Learning to discuss the ways teachers can efficiently and effectively implement a variety of models. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:05:45), Tom highlights why examining standards is more than just identifying the verb; that the depth of thinking must also be considered if assessment tasks are going to rise to the promise of the standards.

 

 

 

 

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Father Phil | LaVonna Roth | Homework (2)

Monday Apr 19, 2021

Monday Apr 19, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:01), Tom tells the story of Father Phil and why he was responsible for Tom choosing education as a career. Then, Tom is joined by LaVonna Roth (16:26), Founder and Lead Presenter at IGNITE your S.H.I.N.E.™ for a discussion about student strengths, SEL, and neuroscience. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:08:36), Tom, in part 2, explores homework and suggests six important questions every teacher should ask about their homework routines.

 

 

 

 

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Debating Both Sides | Muhammad Khalifa | Homework

Monday Apr 12, 2021

Monday Apr 12, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:50), Tom discusses how, by taking a balanced approach to issues or topics, people end up debating the extreme positions on both sides. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Muhammad Khalifa (18:07) to discuss his book "Culturally Responsive School Leadership" and racial equity, in general. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:21:48), Tom begins the first of two parts on the topic of homework.

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Happiness Booster | Lee Ann Jung | Habits of Learning

Monday Apr 05, 2021

Monday Apr 05, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:37), Tom, as a counter to last week, identifies the most efficient and effective happiness booster. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Lee Ann Jung (14:37) to discuss sound assessment practices within the Universal Design for Learning framework. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:07:02), Tom describes five guidelines for schools as they separate academic achievement from the most essential habits of learning.

 

 

 

 

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Happiness Killer | Defining Success | Transcripts

Monday Mar 29, 2021

Monday Mar 29, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:16), Tom identifies the most efficient and effective happiness killer. Then (15:11) hear how the first 24 guests have answered the question, "What's your definition of success?" Finally, in Assessment Corner (37:02), Tom describes why conversations about a new vision for university transcripts need to be thought through in terms of plausibility for the end-users; that visions that have no real plausibility of execution are counter-productive to bringing about meaningful change. 

 

 

 

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Relentless Outrage | Matt Townsley | Leading Change in Assessment (2)

Monday Mar 22, 2021

Monday Mar 22, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:24), Tom takes aim at the relentlessly outraged and details why we are all at risk of losing all perspective, resiliency, individuality, & common-sense. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Matt Townsley (15:30) to discuss the implementation of standards-based grading at the Secondary level. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:11:40), Tom (continuing from last week's episode) uses Dr. John Kotter's research to explore the important phases necessary to transform the assessment & grading culture of a school. 

 

 

 

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Happy for Others | Peter DeWitt | Leading Change in Assessment

Monday Mar 15, 2021

Monday Mar 15, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:45), Tom examines the question of why it's so hard for us to be happy for others. Then, Tom is joined by Dr. Peter DeWitt (17:38) to discuss what it means to be an instructional leader. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:19:07), Tom uses Dr. John Kotter's research to explore the important phases necessary to transform the assessment & grading culture of a school. 

 

 

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Defending vs Defensive | Alexa Schmid | Normative Tendencies

Monday Mar 08, 2021

Monday Mar 08, 2021

In Don't @ Me (3:51), Tom outlines the challenges we face when deciding whether someone is defending themselves or being defensive. Then, Tom is joined by Alexa Schmid (16:42), Middle School Principal at the International School of Kenya, to discuss the findings of her doctoral research on Justice, Equity, and Cultural Competence in International Education. Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:12:35), Tom explores the inadvertent influence our lingering normative tendencies can have on the implementation of standards-based grading practices. 

 

 

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