Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)
 

Assess THAT with Tom & Nat! (Assessment, Feedback, Grading, and Learning)

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Assess THAT with Tom & Nat is a bi-weekly podcast where co-hosts Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso unpack what it really means to deepen assessment literacy in schools. Known for their dynamic, insightful, and sometimes provocative conversations, Tom and Nat create a space where educators can rethink grading, feedback, and accountability in ways that put student learning first. Each episode blends practical strategies with big-picture thinking, helping teachers and leaders translate research into action without losing sight of the human side of education.

Listeners can expect honest discussions, fresh perspectives, and plenty of take-home ideas. From reimagining final exams to exploring the role of assessment in equity and Universal Design for Learning, Assess THAT is for any educator ready to challenge the status quo and embrace assessment as a tool for growth—not just measurement.

About the Hosts
Tom Schimmer and Natalie Vardabasso are internationally recognized speakers, authors, and consultants who have spent their careers helping schools modernize assessment and grading practices. Together, they are the co-founders of the Canadian Assessment Centre (CAC), a national professional learning hub created by Canadians, for Canadians to bring clarity, credibility, and care to assessment in classrooms across the country.

  • Tom Schimmer is the author and co-author of multiple best-selling books, including Grading from the Inside Out and Standards-Based Learning in Action. With 35 years of experience as a teacher, leader, and consultant, Tom is known for his ability to translate big ideas into practical tools educators can use right away.

  • Natalie Vardabasso is a leading voice in assessment and equity, recognized for her innovative approaches to standards-based learning, feedback, and student agency. As a speaker, writer, and coach, she has helped thousands of educators create assessment systems that are not only accurate but also deeply humanizing.

Together, Tom and Natalie bring complementary perspectives, humour, and a deep commitment to making assessment meaningful. Their partnership in Assess THAT and at the Canadian Assessment Centre reflects a shared belief that when educators improve how they assess, they unlock the full potential of every learner.

Tom and Natalie are also the authors of Rehumanizing Assessment: Gathering Evidence of Learning Through Storytelling, a book that challenges traditional grading systems and shows how assessment can honour student voice and identity.

Why Listen?
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, school leader, or policy maker, Assess THAT with Tom & Nat will challenge your assumptions, equip you with actionable strategies, and inspire you to see assessment as the most powerful driver of student success.

Episodes

Machinery of Achievement | Pav Wander | Acceptable Alternatives

Monday Nov 08, 2021

Monday Nov 08, 2021

In Don't @ Me (3:48), Tom opens this week with a reminder that educators have more influence and control over the machinery of student achievement than some might think. Then, Tom is joined by teacher and podcast co-host Pav Wander (17:43) for a conversation about teacher-voice.  Finally, in Assessment Corner (1:00:30), Tom focuses on the importance of acceptable alternatives in assessment and grading reform.

 

 

12for12 Challenge (50th Episode)

(1) Post a picture on Twitter, Instagram (NOT IG story b/c those disappear), or Facebook OR a video on TikTok (yes, the podcast is on TikTok) of what you typically do while listening to the podcast. E.g., Twitter - Something like Hey @TomSchimmerPod, I love listening to the podcast while on my commute to/from work every day OR Hey, @TomSchimmerPod, I love listening to the podcast while I work out or whatever. You have to tag the podcast - Podcast handles. I’ll check you are following the podcast too; that’s a must.

 

(2) Then, you have to get at least 12 people in the next 2 weeks to subscribe to the podcast and post about it. 12 hours of coaching – 12 people. It might sound something like this: I just subscribed to the @TomSchimmerPod. Thanks (tag you - @mybestfriend) for the recommendation! They don’t have to post a pic but that would certainly be cool if they did.

 

 

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EduDivisiveness | Doug Reeves (Pt. 2) | Assessment Relevance

Monday Nov 01, 2021

Monday Nov 01, 2021

In Don't @ Me (6:22), Tom takes aim at the (intentional or otherwise) divisiveness that seems to be emerging within the education profession, especially on social media. Then, Tom is joined by Doug Reeves (15:38) part two of their conversation; this week centers on leadership and implementation of change. Finally, in Assessment Corner (39:05), Tom highlights the importance of relevance in assessment design.

 

 

50th Episode Contest (12 for 12)

(1) Post a picture on Twitter, Instagram (NOT IG story b/c those disappear), or Facebook OR a video on TikTok (yes, the podcast is on TikTok) of what you typically do while listening to the podcast. E.g., Twitter - Something like Hey @TomSchimmerPod, I love listening to the podcast while on my commute to/from work every day OR Hey, @TomSchimmerPod, I love listening to the podcast while I work out or whatever. You have to tag the podcast - Podcast handles. I’ll check you are following the podcast too; that’s a must.

 

(2) Then, you have to get at least 12 people in the next 2 weeks to subscribe to the podcast and post about it. 12 hours of coaching – 12 people. It might sound something like this: I just subscribed to the @TomSchimmerPod. Thanks (tag you - @mybestfriend) for the recommendation! They don’t have to post a pic but that would certainly be cool if they did.

 

 

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Risk is Reward | Doug Reeves (Pt. 1) | Targeted Feedback

Monday Oct 25, 2021

Monday Oct 25, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:16), Tom opens with an assertion that risk-taking itself can and should be the reward (as opposed to playing the results and deciding in retrospect). Then, Tom is joined by Doug Reeves (12:47) in part one of their two-part conversation; this week centers on how creativity and innovation can become more of a driving force in a 21st century, K-12 education. Finally, in Assessment Corner (39:53), Tom highlights a handbook chapter by Gordon Stobart that focuses on why it’s critical to tailor our feedback to where learners are along their learning continuums.

 

 

The Cambridge Handbook of Instructional Feedback

 

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Fear of Regret | Tina Boogren | Method vs Format

Monday Oct 18, 2021

Monday Oct 18, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:42), Tom opens with a personal story that illustrates how the fear of regret can be a driver of success in our lives. Then, Tom is joined by Tina Boogren (19:08) to discuss the importance of self-care for educators and why focusing on ourselves is not selfish, but necessary for us to be at our best for students. Finally, in Assessment Corner (51:33), Tom talks briefly about whether teachers should intentionally use a variety of assessment methods?

 

 

 

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Shine Bright | Luis Cruz | Don‘t Overthink It

Monday Oct 11, 2021

Monday Oct 11, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:46), Tom opens with a quick story from last week about how the small things in life – even if they are manufactured – can make a big difference in how we are feeling. Then, Tom is joined by friend and colleague Luis Cruz (11:19) to explore what it means to fulfill society’s new, more modern definition of ALL, as in all-means-all. Finally, in Assessment Corner (58:48), Tom talks briefly about rubrics and criteria. Not so much about the content and structure but about the creation of rubrics themselves and why we have to stop overthinking them.

 

 

 

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Disproving the Theory | Phyllis Fagell | The Allure of Quick

Monday Oct 04, 2021

Monday Oct 04, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:36), Tom opens with a rant about student accountability and how so many, on a daily basis, disprove the theories they assert. Then, Tom is joined by LCPC, psychotherapist, and author Phyllis Fagell (12:57) for a discussion about the teacher-family dynamic and the uniqueness of middle-level learners. Finally, in Assessment Corner (45:07), Tom addresses a particular mindset around assessment that seems to be fairly pervasive but is one we need to be cautious of.

 

 

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Second Opinions | Cathy Vatterott | Peer Assessment

Monday Sep 27, 2021

Monday Sep 27, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:54), Tom opens with an assertion that educators should seek "second opinions" about the degree to which students have met learning goals. Then, Tom is joined by author, speaker, and expert Dr. Cathy Vatterott (15:23) for a discussion about homework and the larger issue of student stress and anxiety. Finally, in Assessment Corner (52:59), Tom focuses on peer assessment and the many iterations and potential outcomes of this powerful, yet often under-utilized practice.

 

 

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Present as Epilogue | Rachel Carrillo Fairchild | No Point-Fives

Monday Sep 20, 2021

Monday Sep 20, 2021

In Don't @ Me (1:48), Tom shares a daily habit that has contributed to both his personal and professional success. Then, Tom is joined by author, speaker, and expert Rachel Carrillo Fairchild (10:29) for a discussion on how we effectively and efficiently support Multilingual Learners. Finally, in Assessment Corner (56:36), Tom focuses on why we should not include point-fives (.5) in our grading scales.

 

 

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Are We Too Serious? | Greg Wolcott | Willing & Able

Monday Sep 13, 2021

Monday Sep 13, 2021

In Don't @ Me (2:58), Tom wonders if we (as a society) have become too serious and makes the distinction between taking things seriously and taking ourselves too seriously. Then, Tom is joined by Greg Wolcott (10:54), author of SIGNIFICANT 72: UNLEASHING THE POWER OF RELATIONSHIPS IN TODAY’S SCHOOLS to discuss the critical role student-teacher relationships play in both the academic and social success of students. Finally, in Assessment Corner (43:11), Tom focuses on assessment and grading reform and breaks it down in terms of the specific mindset or approaches when colleagues are along the continuums of "willing" & "able" to manifest the change both individually and collectively.

 

 

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Summer Series: Trauma-Informed Education

Tuesday Aug 17, 2021

Tuesday Aug 17, 2021

The 2021 Summer Series continues with a roundtable discussion on Trauma-Informed Education. Joining Tom for this discussion are Jill Reedy, Joshua Stamper, & John Eller.

 

Jill Reedy is currently Assistant Regional Superintendent for the Macon/Piatt Regional Office of Education #39 located in Decatur, IL (24 yrs in education). She is a former elementary and middle school teacher and principal, as well as a district-level curriculum director. Jill led the work of the TIP (Trauma-Informed Partnership) consisting of the Macon/Piatt Regional Office, the Education Coalition of Macon County (community organization), the IEA (Illinois Education Association teacher union), and SIU School of Medicine Department of Population Science and Policy (Dr. Sameer Vohra,  Dr. Jeanne Koehler, Dr. Anne Scheer). Jill presents to administrators and teachers throughout Illinois with Dr. Nancy Brodbeck on “Implementing Trauma-Informed Practices in Schools” and “Creating a Culture of Care Through Mindful Leadership." She was recently invited to participate in the development of a new Children’s Mental Health Plan for Illinois with the ICMHP (Illinois Children’ Mental Health Partnership) and is currently working with the IL Governor’s R3 (Restore, Renew, Reinvest) grant to foster positive relationships between youth and law enforcement and build capacity within community leaders to implement restorative practices

 

 

Joshua Stamper is a middle school Assistant Principal for a North Texas School District, where he's had the amazing opportunity to serve at four campuses and in two school districts. Prior to Joshua's current position, he was a classroom art educator and athletic coach for 6 years working with students in grades 6-8. In addition to his administrative position, Joshua is a podcaster, author, leadership coach, education presenter, and Podcast Network Manager for the Teach Better Team.

 

 

John Eller has served in many roles in education. He has been an elementary and secondary school teacher, a principal at several schools, a National Distinguished Principal with the US Department of Education, a principal center director, and a college professor. John consults with schools and districts across the United States, Canada, and Australia and in South America, Europe, and Asia. John has authored or co-authored over a dozen books for Solution Tree and Corwin Press. His newest publication, Trauma-Sensitive Instruction, is designed to help teachers, leaders, and schools to work more effectively with trauma-impacted students.

 

 

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